DAY TWENTY-NINE: Trial Against David Castillo

NOTE: The court convened briefly today (Thursday, June 3) to discuss the health concerns of two attorneys representing the Cáceres family. The judges are waiting for covid results to make decisions about when the trial will convene again.

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NOTE: Today, Wednesday, June 2nd, the trial did not take place as planned because of a health concern raised by the private accusers (Cáceres family lawyers). It is convened again for tomorrow at 9 am.

Last update (for notes below): June 2 at 9:15 pm

Main Points of the Day

• Expert witness Gladys Tzul spent the day on the stand being questioned mostly by Castillo’s defense team. Tzul finished her appearance in court. The trial will continue on Wednesday

More Details

Expert Witness Gladys Tzul Continues on the Stand

• The court verifies the judicial files that were given to Tzul to complete her expert analysis after a question from the prosecutors from day twenty-eight.

• Private Accusers (Cáceres family lawyers) Question Tzul

  • Q: How much time did you have to conduct your analysis from the time you received the information from the court? A: 7 days

  • Q: In what year did you conduct the interviews used in your analysis? A: In 2017

  • Q: In conclusion #4 you made reference to ‘sacred notions’, what are you referring to? A: These sacred notions are part of the cosmovision of the Lenca people who believe that the river has a feminine spirit and is cared for by [the spirit of] girls. This belief is politically and socially fundamental to the communities. This is what I was told in interviews.

  • Q: You mentioned the campaigns to discredit Berta Cáceres. What did these campaigns entail? A: They were used against Berta Cáceres for being COPINH’s coordinator. They accused her of being against development because defending communal concepts in a liberal political framework means that one is against development. Even though communities may not have economic income, they have richness through their water, land, and territories.

• Castillo’s Defense Team Questions Tzul.

  • [NOTE: The questioning begins with the technical consultant Edgardo Rodríguez. Rodríguez is a controversial figure as he resigned from his university teaching position after it was reported that he called his students “little gay boys” (mariconcitas) and “little girls (niñitas). In this trial, the court equated his credentials as a technical consultant to the credentials of Gladys Tzul, a gender violence expert. For several hours, the defense asked several detailed questions, many of them were objected to by the prosecutors and private accusers. It seemed like there were more questions that received objections than there were questions that were answered.]

  • Q: You talked about military occupation in Lenca territories, how do you define military occupation? A: The entrance and presence of the Armed Forces

  • Q: What is your role inside the indigenous movement? A: I’m a social, community-oriented researcher.

  • Q: On page 2 of your analysis, you said that the report reviews and analyzes specific theories. What relationship do these academic discussions have with concrete facts? Objection

  • Q: You said you interviewed people from Intibuca. How many people did you interview? A: I did two field work visits. In the first, I spoke with 36 people and the second, 22 people

  • Q: What percentage of the population do the 36 and 22 people represent? A: There is no perception of universality in my analysis

  • Q: What level of knowledge do you have of the demographic composition of Honduras? Objection

  • Q: What is the Lenca population in Honduras? A: I understand that you’re looking for a quantitative analysis. This is a qualitative analysis. Secondly, the state registry of these numbers do not record self-identification of indigenous identity and there are processes of self-identification inside communities. This limits the ability to know really know about indigenous populations. That’s why I don’t use it because it can be an obstacle.

  • Q: Why did you say that 91% of the Honduran population is rural? A: I got this figure from the Honduran Institute of Anthropology and History from a specific academic study.

  • Q: [Technical consultant reads a DESA communique talking about Lenca communities being manipulated.] Why did you say in this study that this is a racist policy? A: It says that Berta Cáceres is manipulating the communities. This communique indicates that indigenous populations can be manipulated and they don’t have the ability to analyze and understand their situation on their own.

  • Q: How do you identify ideologically? Objection

  • Q: You said that Berta was anti-capitalist, if we are talking about capitalism, what ideology do you identify with? Objection

  • Q: You mentioned the Popular Women’s courts that COPINH organized, what level of recognition or legitimacy do these courts have by the Honduran state? A: These courts are a part of historical processes inside communities. They have been conserved as has the capacity to make justice.

  • Q: You refer to political registries, are you referring to the political system? A: There are liberal state framework (such as insitutions that make up the state) and another type of registry from a different type of political system which is communal. The individual is not at the center of this second type and instead, the community is. They establish a knowledge about territory, water, etc.

  • Q: What is your position about hydroelectric projects? A: I presented my conclusions, I don’t have a position. I’m not Honduran

  • Q: You said that Castillo tried to be Cáceres’s friend, offered her favors - how can you conclude as as sociologist that there is gender violence in the short conversation you referenced? A: These are evaluations that I made from various parts of conversations. I listed the ways in which acts and behaviors are identified as gender violence against women.

  • Q: You talked about friendship not being able to exist in situations of inequality. How is this possible if we all have friendships with people that are from different cultures, different economic backgrounds, etc? Objection (she answered). There is always a relation of power in these types of relationships (ex. teacher and a student).

  • The defense lawyers take over the questioning

  • Q: In your analysis about Berta Cáceres, what relevance did you give to topics that we are discussing today? Objection

  • Q: Why in your analysis did you use the research of the GAIPE as a central resource? Objection

  • Q: In your analysis, what do men represent in the social realm? Objection

  • Q: Why did you take the data about murders of women from 2013 and not the range from 2013 to 2017? [inaudible]

  • Q: What was the murder rate of women in 2013 to 2017? I don’t have that information

  • Q: What knowledge do you have of the population demographics in Intibuca? Objection

  • Q: How many communities are there in Rio Blanco? Objection

  • Q: When you were in La Esperanza, what importance did you give to the relationship between communities in Santa Barbara with respect to COPINH’s actions? A: I studied violence against women

  • Q: You used charts to describe chats between different people, on chart xyz (names specific chart), what types of chats are they? A: They are group chats

  • There were more questions but many were objected to and many are largely irrelevant.